Our very own Johan van Mil was a guest at the Unravel Podcast. Check out the interview below:
Shownotes:
Johan van Mil, a renowned venture capitalist from the Netherlands, has made significant strides in the European VC market. But before his success in the investment world, Johan’s journey began as an entrepreneur. He grew up in the small town of Drunen, near Den Bosch in the south of Holland, a region known for its tight-knit communities and rich traditions.
From Humble Beginnings to Serial Entrepreneur
Despite his modest beginnings, Johan’s childhood was far from ordinary. Raised with three siblings, he was the youngest and, by his own admission, “the bravest.” His youth was turbulent, marked by his mother’s serious accident when he was just 12, which ultimately led to her illness and his parents’ divorce. This challenging period, however, fueled Johan’s relentless drive and shaped his entrepreneurial mindset. “I had a lot of energy and a lot of drive, and it was hard for me to concentrate,” he says. “I did a lot of experimenting and got thrown out of school a few times—honestly, that’s when you know you’re going to be successful.”
The Stroopwafel Hustle: Johan’s First Venture
Johan’s entrepreneurial spark ignited early on. He recalls how, at just 12 years old, he turned a simple love for stroopwafels (Dutch caramel waffles) into his first business venture. “I would go to the market early before school and buy leftover stroopwafels in small bags for about 15 cents,” he explains. “I’d sell them for 35 cents.”
Soon enough, Johan realized that he could adjust prices throughout the day based on demand. He noticed that as time passed, customers were willing to pay more. By the end of the day, he could sell the same bags for one guilder—significantly higher than his initial price. Johan learned early that timing and volume were key to maximizing profits. “It was about more than just selling. It was about understanding the market and adjusting,” he says.
His father even helped him by driving large boxes of stroopwafels in his Volvo station car, helping Johan scale his little operation. It was his first taste of business, and it taught him valuable lessons about pricing, timing, and customer behavior.
A Series of Successful Ventures
Johan’s entrepreneurial journey didn’t stop with stroopwafels. As he entered his teenage years, he kept looking for new opportunities. One of his first major ventures was in the rental business. At just 18, Johan began renting out rooms and houses to help finance his studies. “I wasn’t just trying to make money; I was also trying to pay for my education. I fully financed my study myself,” he recalls. His rental business was successful enough to catch the attention of another company, which eventually acquired it.
While studying in Antwerp, Johan’s entrepreneurial spirit led him to open an internet café—a resource for students and universities at the time when the internet was just beginning to gain traction. “I had five locations, helping universities provide students with access to computers and the internet. It was a simple but successful model.” The venture helped him further refine his skills in managing and scaling businesses.
The Leap to Corporate Life
After completing his studies, Johan’s next step was to gain experience in the corporate world. He took a regular job in sales at Telemedia, a joint venture between the Swedish company Telia and Dutch telecommunications giant KPN. This move, he admits, was crucial for his development. “It gave me a lot of insight into how professionally run organizations operate, and it taught me how to build myself up professionally as well,” Johan explains.
Despite his natural inclination for entrepreneurship, the corporate world provided Johan with the discipline and structure that he needed. “I still remember my first boss, Barbara, being shocked that I couldn’t come in on time. I wasn’t used to the 8:30 AM start. But I always brought in significant revenue, so it worked out in the end,” he laughs.
Transitioning from Employee to Entrepreneur: Johan’s Next Steps
After spending five years in the corporate world, Johan van Mil knew it was time to take the leap back into entrepreneurship. His journey in the job market was marked by rapid success. Starting as a tele-sales representative, he quickly moved up the ranks to become an account manager, then team lead. “In just two to three years, I had worked my way up,” Johan recalls. His swift ascent wasn’t just due to his skills—it was driven by his entrepreneurial mindset, something he credits as a key factor in his success.
“I didn’t just think as an employee,” Johan explains. “I thought as an employer, as an entrepreneur. That helped me excel, do more, and think differently about revenue and profit, which was the key to my success.”
A Family Legacy of Entrepreneurship
Johan’s entrepreneurial spirit runs deep. He believes it’s something in his veins, influenced by his family. Although neither of his parents were entrepreneurs, his ancestors had entrepreneurial tendencies, and Johan grew up seeing this mindset around him. Despite this, his mother was skeptical when he decided to take the plunge into full-time entrepreneurship. “Why take the risk? Why not just get a well-paid job at a regular company?” she would ask. Johan’s parents, aware of the challenges that come with running a business, tried to steer him toward a more traditional career path. Yet, his drive to carve his own path remained strong.
Johan reflects on the resistance from his family. “They never fully understood what I was doing, even after all these years. My mother passed away last year, and she still didn’t understand my businesses or investments. But she always respected my choice,” he says with a sense of fondness.
A Bold Move: Buying a Radio Station
After his five years in the corporate world, Johan’s first major entrepreneurial move was co-owning BNR News Radio, a station teetering on the brink of bankruptcy. Johan and a business partner saw an opportunity and acted quickly. “We bought the station just before it was about to go bankrupt and sold it to Financiële Dagblad,” Johan recalls. BNR News Radio would go on to become one of the most well-known news radio stations in the Netherlands.
Johan’s role in this venture was commercial, and he was instrumental in turning the station around. “We grew the revenue fivefold in just two and a half years,” he says proudly. The key to this success? A radical shift in the company’s approach.
“We completely changed the sales team and their approach. Previously, clients would call us, but we made a proactive shift, starting to reach out to potential clients. We also changed how we worked with advertising agencies,” Johan explains. The sales team became more active, the pricing structure was adjusted, and they even conducted unique marketing stunts to raise the station’s profile.
One of these stunts involved giving out clocks to media planners, showcasing the precise timing of the station’s news broadcasts. The team also adjusted the radio station’s format to keep listeners tuned in longer—shifting from a 20-minute program cycle to a 30-minute one, which had a direct impact on their audience metrics. This change led to a dramatic increase in the station’s media presence, helping it gain a foothold with key advertisers.
Navigating Challenges as an Entrepreneur
Despite the early success, Johan admits that his biggest challenge as an entrepreneur was learning to focus. “As an entrepreneur, you feel like you have to do everything. I was responsible for sales, marketing, and even some of the capital investments. But what I eventually learned was to focus on what I’m good at,” he reflects.
Running a radio station is inherently capital-intensive, requiring heavy investments in journalists, equipment, and the quality of the broadcasts. While Johan was adept at the commercial side, he had to learn how to balance the operational costs and focus his efforts on the areas that would drive growth.
Using Gut Feelings to Drive Strategy
In the early 2000s, when Johan was running BNR News Radio, the tools we have today—like Google Analytics or Mixpanel—didn’t exist for radio stations. Data was limited, and much of the decision-making was based on gut feeling. “We didn’t have any real-time data. A lot of it was based on logical thinking and talking to people in the industry,” Johan says.
For example, the decision to shift the format of the radio station wasn’t based on analytics but on a deeper understanding of audience behavior. “We learned that listeners would switch stations after 20 minutes. So, we adjusted our format and extended the content to keep people listening longer,” he explains.
Despite working with limited tools, Johan was able to take intuitive decisions that helped the station flourish.
The Impact of Current Events
During Johan’s time at BNR, world events played a major role in shaping the station’s success. Major news events like the 9/11 attacks and the death of prominent Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn saw a surge in demand for news broadcasts. “These events changed the way people consumed news,” Johan explains. “People were listening to the radio more to get up-to-date, accurate information.”
Johan likens this to the modern-day consumption of news, citing how the media world shifted when Donald Trump became U.S. President. “People were glued to their screens, checking what Trump would do or say next. It became a kind of entertainment,” he says.
A Brief Break and the Next Chapter
After successfully turning around BNR News Radio, Johan took some time off to reflect, recharge, and plan his next move. “Whenever I finish a venture, I always take a few months off. I like to travel and digest everything, then think about what’s next,” he says.
During this break, Johan also became involved in the Interactive Professionals Association (IPON), a trade association for the interactive industry in the Netherlands. As chairman, he faced the challenge of saving the organization during tough economic times, as the internet sector had taken a hit after the dot-com bubble burst. The association was on the brink of bankruptcy, but Johan and his team worked hard to restructure and cut costs, learning valuable lessons along the way.
It was through these connections and conversations that Johan’s next business idea came to life. After discussing opportunities with several people, including Kees Segers, the founder of the popular Dutch news site Nu.nl, Johan was offered the chance to take over a struggling company. He took on the challenge and helped it grow.
On Buying and Turning Around Companies
Johan shares his experience with two companies that were failing and how he turned them around. One example is Sapenda, which he later rebranded as Mailmedia. He highlights a few key reasons he was able to succeed where the previous founders failed. First, he emphasizes the importance of clear focus. The previous company had spread itself too thin, engaging in multiple ventures (software, agency work, data, and publishing). Johan narrowed down the focus to the data business, which was a key to success. Second, dedication and hard work are crucial, with Johan stressing that part-time entrepreneurship is not a viable path for long-term success. He also notes the importance of having a strong commercial drive and being willing to take on clients and build relationships to grow the business.
However, Johan acknowledges that delegation was a challenge, particularly in the early stages of his career, which is why he didn’t have co-founders in many of his businesses. He emphasizes that having a co-founder is now crucial, noting that his venture capital firm, Peak, does not invest in solo founders.
On Founders and Teams
Johan discusses the significance of having a team, particularly in tech companies, where having internal technical capabilities is key to success. Although some successful founders have sold their companies and continue as solo entrepreneurs, Johan believes that multi-founder teams are generally more effective. He advocates for having a well-rounded team with different strengths, which enables individuals to focus on what they do best. Johan also reflects on his personal growth as a founder, realizing that no one can be good at everything. Recognizing your weaknesses and hiring people who are better at certain tasks is crucial to building a successful business.
The Importance of Hiring the Right People
One of the biggest lessons Johan van Mil has learned in his entrepreneurial journey is the importance of hiring people who are better than himself. He emphasizes that a successful leader doesn’t need to know everything. “If you have a huge ego, it’s never going to work,” he says. Instead, the key is to surround yourself with people who bring skills and expertise you might lack.
However, hiring the right people can be challenging, especially when assessing candidates for roles in areas where you might not have expertise yourself, like sales. Johan’s approach is to first educate himself. He immerses himself in learning the basics of sales, understanding the process, and even setting up his own CRM system. By doing so, he gains a clearer understanding of what the job entails. This knowledge allows him to better identify the right candidates when he speaks to them, as he can spot the experts who offer solutions he knows will work.
He also shares advice for entrepreneurs who are looking to hire: “Talk to people who are good at what you need, ask for their input, and learn from them,” he suggests. This hands-on approach, where you engage with the process before hiring, can help you make better decisions.
The Power of Asking for Feedback
Johan’s success, especially early on, came from actively seeking feedback from others. Reflecting on his experience in the Rockstar AI program in 2017, he shares how his startup was initially considered too young and underdeveloped for the program. However, by the end of the program, his company was the only one to raise funding and launch a product.
The reason for this success, Johan believes, was his constant pursuit of feedback. “I spoke to everyone, every founder, and asked for their advice on everything, from my website to my sales pitch.” By seeking out feedback, he was able to gain insights that others missed. “It’s not hard to ask,” he says. “Asking is the best quality a founder can have.”
The Value of Continuous Learning
Johan discusses how many entrepreneurs, especially earlier in their careers, may hesitate to ask for help due to a fear of appearing weak. However, he believes that this mindset is changing. “People now realize that you can never know everything,” he explains. For founders, learning is an ongoing process that opens new opportunities and perspectives.
This approach of learning from others also extends to Johan’s work as an investor. He encourages founders to ask insightful questions during pitches and stresses the importance of always being open to learning from those around you.
Identifying Market Opportunities
When it comes to assessing market opportunities and validating business ideas, Johan notes that this is one of the most difficult aspects of his role as a venture capitalist. At Peak, the firm he works with, they focus on investing in early-stage companies in the SaaS, marketplace, and platform space. For Johan, understanding the founder and the market is crucial.
“Assessing people is the most important thing we do,” he says. However, understanding the market is just as vital. Johan shares that his team often looks at companies in sectors they find intriguing, even if they don’t initially see an opportunity in the market. By researching and learning more about the sector, they can uncover new opportunities. “Sometimes, you don’t see the numbers, but you feel that there’s a problem that needs to be solved,” Johan explains.
Taking Risks on Founders and Market Trends
Johan shares a personal example of an investment where the numbers weren’t initially compelling, but his trust in the founders paid off. He recalls the time when Peak invested in Katawiki, a platform that began as a niche comic book collection site. Despite the small market size and lack of revenue at the time, Johan and his team believed in the founders. Over time, the company pivoted several times until it became a leading auction site for collectables.
However, Johan also admits that the venture capital world is full of risks and mistakes. He confesses that his team has turned down opportunities they later regretted, such as missing out on investing in Muse, a company that recently raised a $100 Million round and reached unicorn status.
Balancing Data and Gut Feeling in Investing
As an investor, Johan explains that there is a delicate balance between data analysis and gut feeling when assessing companies. While some of his colleagues focus on market sizing and financial analytics, Johan tends to rely more on intuition. “Sometimes you don’t see it in the numbers, but you feel that the problem is there, and it should be solved,” he says. This combination of data and instinct, Johan believes, makes for a successful investment strategy.
Learning From Failures and Setbacks
Reflecting on his own entrepreneurial journey, Johan shares some of his most significant failures. The biggest lesson he learned was the importance of hiring the right people. On several occasions, Johan admits he hired the wrong people and took too long to let them go. “Often, your first assessment of a person is right, and you should act on it sooner rather than later,” he advises.
Additionally, Johan talks about the importance of timing when selling a company. As someone who has been involved in exits, he explains that how and when you sell can have a lasting impact on the company’s success. This insight ultimately led him to start his podcast, The Big Exit, where he discusses the various factors involved in selling a company.
Funny Story About IPO Approach
At one point, Johan van Mil was running a company and was approached by potential buyers in a rather interesting way. He was planning a weekend trip to Paris with his girlfriend, but just a few days before leaving, he learned that two of his French competitors were preparing for an IPO. This caught him off guard. He mentioned to his wife, “We have to go to Paris, but I might need to take a lunch meeting, which might take a little longer than expected.” In the end, he found himself attending meetings with those competitors, as their IPO plans created a perfect opportunity to sell his own company. The timing worked out very well.
Later, Johan shares how he was also approached to sell his company at another point when they were growing quickly and had plenty of funding. He declined the offer, not even engaging with the banker who contacted him. The competitor, which was about 30% smaller in revenue, was later acquired for a significant amount—an amount that would have made him consider selling his own company. It was a case of misjudging the opportunity at the time. A while later, he reached out to the banker to see if they were still interested in his company, but the response was no. This was a valuable learning moment for him.
The Importance of Mentorship and Networking
Johan talks about the value of mentorship, emphasizing how important it is to surround oneself with people who can provide guidance. While he hasn’t had a single mentor that changed his life drastically, he has always had mentors in various forms, such as close friends and professional coaches. This has helped him reflect and grow, both personally and professionally. He prefers working with mentors who challenge him to learn more about himself and improve continuously.
However, he notes that mentorship, while useful, hasn’t been the major factor driving significant changes in his life. Instead, he focuses on his own learning. As he transitioned from entrepreneur to investor, he spent a lot of time reading and talking to people to build his own convictions. This independent growth and reflection have been key for him.
What He Looks for in an Entrepreneur
When Johan van Mil evaluates entrepreneurs, he considers a few key traits. One of the most important is passion. Building and scaling a company requires immense dedication, and he believes that passion is essential not just to keep the founder motivated, but to convince employees, investors, and potential buyers.
Next, Johan values grit. He knows firsthand that building a company takes longer, costs more, and requires more energy than most entrepreneurs expect. He looks for proof that the entrepreneur has overcome challenges before, whether through prior jobs or as a founder. For him, failed founders often have more valuable lessons to share than those who have only known success.
Lastly, Johan seeks a data-driven mindset in entrepreneurs. Unlike in the past, when decisions were often based on gut feeling, today’s business world demands a strong understanding of data—whether it’s growth metrics, user behavior, or campaign performance. Entrepreneurs who can leverage data to drive their decisions stand out to him.
The Reality of Entrepreneurship
Reflecting on his own experiences, Johan explains that many first-time founders don’t truly grasp how much longer and more expensive it will be to build a company than they expect. He often finds that when they say they’ll reach profitability in six months, it’s not realistic, and he can already tell they are underestimating the challenges.
As an investor, Johan and his team always factor in double the time and budget when looking at new startups. He stresses the importance of reminding founders of this reality early on, although he acknowledges that many of them don’t believe it until they experience it themselves. At the same time, he understands that founders need to maintain belief in their vision and ambition. As an investor, he helps guide them through those tough moments when the reality of the situation sets in, but he also emphasizes the need to keep the belief alive during the journey.
Managing Meetings Efficiently
Johan van Mil shares how he manages his busy schedule to avoid overloading himself with back-to-back meetings. He explains that he prefers scheduling short 15-minute calls, allowing him to assess if the conversation is worth extending. This approach not only saves time but also helps him avoid long meetings that might feel forced. Johan stresses that without this system in place, his calendar would quickly fill up, leaving him no time to focus on other tasks.
Reflecting on the Entrepreneurial Journey
When asked if there’s anything Johan wishes he had known before starting his entrepreneurial journey, his answer is clear: no. He feels that everything he has gone through, both the successes and the challenges, has shaped him into who he is today. He acknowledges that if he had known about the high failure rate, the costs, and the time investment, he might have been discouraged from pursuing his path. However, he is grateful for his experiences, as they have helped him grow.
Johan also reflects on the changes in the entrepreneurial landscape. When he started, there were no podcasts or books to guide him. The resources available today—such as podcasts, blogs, and books—offer a wealth of knowledge, and he believes it’s vital for entrepreneurs to stay true to themselves and be in tune with their personal energy. Listening to one’s energy, he adds, is key to understanding when to push forward and when to step back.
The Role of Learning and Growth
Johan highlights that as an entrepreneur, it’s crucial to keep learning and growing. While there’s an abundance of knowledge available now, he reflects on how things were different when he first started his companies, where resources were limited. His experiences shaped the way he sees entrepreneurship today. He emphasizes that failure, though difficult, can teach valuable lessons that later become key insights.
Why Johan Became a VC
Johan discusses his transition from being an entrepreneur to becoming a venture capitalist (VC). He reveals that the decision was partially motivated by the realization that he couldn’t sustain the same energy and passion for entrepreneurship forever. Additionally, he foresaw the need for a better work-life balance, especially as he planned for a family. At the time, Johan was making his first angel investment, and it was during a holiday in Scotland with his girlfriend that he started reflecting on his future. He realized he wanted to invest professionally, though he didn’t know much about VC at the time, as it was a relatively new concept in Europe.
Through a combination of writing a book, teaching, and mentoring, Johan began to refine his idea of becoming a VC. He eventually formed a team with diverse backgrounds to create Peak, a venture firm. Johan appreciates the value of diversity in teams, believing that strong partnerships require people who complement one another, both in terms of skills and perspectives.
Building Peak and Early Investments
Johan reflects on the early days of Peak, recalling that their first fund had five limited partners (LPs), including the partners themselves. The fund size was €2.5 Million, and they made three investments. After two years, with a mixed outcome from those investments, they decided to professionalize the firm. They expanded their fund and brought in external money, growing their second fund size to €6 Million.
Johan is proud of the performance of their first fund, which had an internal rate of return (IRR) of 14.6%. Though it took around five to six years to realize a return, the results were solid, especially considering that many first funds struggle to make a profit.
Would Johan Start a New Company Today?
Despite being a VC for nearly two decades, Johan would still start a new company if the right opportunity arose. He believes in focusing on industries that are close to his personal interests and passions. He’s particularly interested in areas such as climate change, migration, and other large-scale global challenges, seeing these as sectors ripe with opportunity.
Changes in VC from 2020 to 2024
Johan discusses the major shifts in the venture capital industry between 2020 and 2024. He acknowledges that the market during 2020 and 2021 was highly inflated, with a lot of new money pouring in and an overheated environment that led to many unsustainable investments. However, he sees the market now returning to a healthier, more balanced state. While it’s still too early to declare a full recovery, he believes that the industry is undergoing necessary corrections. The rise of new unicorns is a promising sign, but Johan also warns that many companies are still struggling with high burn rates and insufficient cash reserves.
The Issue with Too Many VCs
Johan also discusses the current saturation of the VC market, stating that while there is a lot of money available, there are also too many VCs that lack the necessary expertise. He refers to these as “dumb money”—investors who are more focused on having financial backing rather than offering strategic value. He recognizes that many new VCs are entering the market with little experience, and this often leads to suboptimal investment decisions. Johan expresses his preference for working with partners who bring diverse skills and perspectives to the table, as he believes this creates the best outcomes for startups.
Advice for aspiring entrepreneurs
In the final part of the podcast, Johan van Mil shares his advice for aspiring entrepreneurs and offers insight into the founder-VC relationship.
1. Start Now
Johan emphasizes that now is one of the best times to start a company, despite the current economic situation. Many successful businesses were born during downturns, and it’s crucial for entrepreneurs to act now rather than wait for the perfect idea. He advises entrepreneurs to start small, test an MVP, and learn as they go—especially if it’s their first venture. Building something and growing it, even as a side hustle, is key to learning what it takes to run a business.
2. Don’t Do It Alone
Johan stresses the importance of having a co-founder. It’s essential to partner with someone who has complementary skills. Working together, especially with someone who brings different expertise to the table, significantly increases the chances of success.
3. Fund Your Own Startup
Johan highlights the affordability of starting a business today compared to the past. In the past, launching a company could cost tens of thousands of euros, but now it’s possible to get started with minimal investment. He advises entrepreneurs to fund their business with their own money first, which allows them to build conviction in their idea without immediately diluting their attention or focus by seeking external capital.
4. Scale Quickly
Once an entrepreneur has validated their idea, it’s critical to scale fast. Johan advises that when you realize your product works, you must quickly build the right team, secure capital, and move the business forward. Speed is important, and scaling rapidly becomes necessary to compete in a fast-moving market.
5. Choosing the Right VC
Johan offers practical advice for founders seeking venture capital: They should choose their VCs carefully. Entrepreneurs should assess a potential investor just as the VC evaluates their startup. The relationship with a VC can last for years, so it’s important to determine if the VC is someone you can work with long-term. Johan stresses that the right VC is not just a source of funding but a valuable partner who can guide you and help you make informed decisions.
6. Smart VCs Add Value Beyond Money
A smart VC does more than just write a check—they add value through guidance, mentorship, and connections. Johan explains that the best VCs will help founders navigate challenges, provide strategic advice, and connect them with the right people. The value of a VC lies in how they can help founders grow the business, not just in providing capital.
Conclusion
Johan wraps up by encouraging founders to take the time to truly get to know the VC before making a decision. Building a relationship with a VC is crucial, as the journey ahead will require trust and collaboration. The episode concludes with a reminder for those raising funds to consider Peak Capital as a potential partner.
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